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	<title>Comments on: Does junk DNA protect against mutation?</title>
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		<title>By: Bill Beaver</title>
		<link>http://www.genomicron.evolverzone.com/2009/12/does-junk-dna-protect-against-mutation/comment-page-1/#comment-1365</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill Beaver</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Dec 2009 02:27:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.genomicron.evolverzone.com/?p=713#comment-1365</guid>
		<description>Dr. Gregory
This is a great blog, I&#039;m just starting to sift through all the ideas presented here. I&#039;ve also read a few of your papers. Although not about this post in particular, this comment is about non-coding DNA. How I learn, I hope you would forgive any naivety on my part in advance.

Let&#039;s call this ncDNA for non-coding DNA. I don&#039;t like the name &quot;Junk DNA&quot; because it implies &quot;not worth sequencing.&quot; Also, there is a semantic problem with &quot;junk.&quot; It doesn&#039;t properly address the complexity of genomes and the evolutionary processes going on. Your analogy of genomes to gut bacteria is apt. Genomes are ecologies. An old ecology that could go back to a time before DNA. Variety is a key part. Even related species with the same genome size can have huge differences in the characteristics of their respective ncDNA.  Parts of this ecology are host/associate processes that run the range from predator to parasite to a type of symbiosis. In response the genome has built defenses and through exaptation, has recruited various elements, especially new regulatory elements and sometimes new genes[3].

So I ask myself a question: Why is it that bacterial genomes don&#039;t have ncDNA, especially:

introns
telemeres
centromeres


The null hypothesis would be they got there by accident, contingency.

Ten minutes on Google is a revelation. There are no structures on eukaryote genomes that doesn&#039;t already exist in some form on bacterial genomes. Multiple chromosomes, linear chromosomes, group I and group II introns, retrotrasposons, precursors to centromeres[4]. The tell is that there are three ways bacteria solve the halting problem for linear chromosomes while eukaryote chromosomes only use one, telomere repeats[2]. So my bet would be contingency.

ncDNA as structure:
Seems like there is correlation between genome size and cell size. Also, that newer species tend to have smaller genomes (like the onions). I know that attempts to correlate different phenotypes and genome size in plants have not had very good results. Also, genome folding compartmentalizes gene rich and gene poor regions[1]. Seems the direct relationship is to physiology but I&#039;m a little unclear as to what that means. I took the c-values of some of the various animal groups and did a frequency distribution. Large genomes are rare and small genomes common, the frequency of large genomes fall into a very long tail. Insects especially. If you look at the frequency of plant host families to Lepidoptera species you get a long-tailed graph. Specialists are common and generalists are rare. Frequency of gene introgression vs distance from cline center across a hybrid zone or seed dispersal vs distance, all long-tailed. This means that there is a barrier to larger genomes but the barrier is permeable. This would suggest that large genomes are being recruited for some function but it could be very different function depending on the group.

&lt;em&gt;Comprehensive Mapping of Long-Range Interactions Reveals Folding Principles of the Human Genome, &lt;/em&gt;Erez Lieberman-Aiden, Nynke L. van Berkum, Louise Williams, Maxim Imakaev, Tobias Ragoczy, Agnes Telling, Ido Amit, Bryan R. Lajoie, Peter J. Sabo, Michael O. Dorschner, Richard Sandstrom, Bradley Bernstein, M. A. Bender, Mark Groudine, Andreas Gnirke, John Stamatoyannopoulos, Leonid A. Mirny, Eric S. Lander, Job Dekker, Science Oct 2009.
&lt;em&gt;Complete nucleotide sequence of the chlorarachniophyte nucleomorph: Nature’s smallest nucleu&lt;/em&gt;s, Paul R. Gilson, Vanessa Su, Claudio H. Slamovits, Michael E. Reith, Patrick J. Keeling, Geoffrey I. McFadden, PNAS June 20, 2006.
&lt;em&gt;DNA Transposons and the Evolution of Eukaryotic Genomes&lt;/em&gt;, Cédric Feschotte and Ellen J. Pritham, Annu Rev Genet. 2007.
&lt;em&gt;Distribution of Centromere-Like parS Sites in Bacteria: Insights from Comparative Genomics, &lt;/em&gt;Jonathan Livny, Yoshiharu Yamaichi, and  Matthew K. Waldor, J Bacteriol. 2007 December
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dr. Gregory<br />
This is a great blog, I&#8217;m just starting to sift through all the ideas presented here. I&#8217;ve also read a few of your papers. Although not about this post in particular, this comment is about non-coding DNA. How I learn, I hope you would forgive any naivety on my part in advance.</p>
<p>Let&#8217;s call this ncDNA for non-coding DNA. I don&#8217;t like the name &#8220;Junk DNA&#8221; because it implies &#8220;not worth sequencing.&#8221; Also, there is a semantic problem with &#8220;junk.&#8221; It doesn&#8217;t properly address the complexity of genomes and the evolutionary processes going on. Your analogy of genomes to gut bacteria is apt. Genomes are ecologies. An old ecology that could go back to a time before DNA. Variety is a key part. Even related species with the same genome size can have huge differences in the characteristics of their respective ncDNA.  Parts of this ecology are host/associate processes that run the range from predator to parasite to a type of symbiosis. In response the genome has built defenses and through exaptation, has recruited various elements, especially new regulatory elements and sometimes new genes[3].</p>
<p>So I ask myself a question: Why is it that bacterial genomes don&#8217;t have ncDNA, especially:</p>
<p>introns<br />
telemeres<br />
centromeres</p>
<p>The null hypothesis would be they got there by accident, contingency.</p>
<p>Ten minutes on Google is a revelation. There are no structures on eukaryote genomes that doesn&#8217;t already exist in some form on bacterial genomes. Multiple chromosomes, linear chromosomes, group I and group II introns, retrotrasposons, precursors to centromeres[4]. The tell is that there are three ways bacteria solve the halting problem for linear chromosomes while eukaryote chromosomes only use one, telomere repeats[2]. So my bet would be contingency.</p>
<p>ncDNA as structure:<br />
Seems like there is correlation between genome size and cell size. Also, that newer species tend to have smaller genomes (like the onions). I know that attempts to correlate different phenotypes and genome size in plants have not had very good results. Also, genome folding compartmentalizes gene rich and gene poor regions[1]. Seems the direct relationship is to physiology but I&#8217;m a little unclear as to what that means. I took the c-values of some of the various animal groups and did a frequency distribution. Large genomes are rare and small genomes common, the frequency of large genomes fall into a very long tail. Insects especially. If you look at the frequency of plant host families to Lepidoptera species you get a long-tailed graph. Specialists are common and generalists are rare. Frequency of gene introgression vs distance from cline center across a hybrid zone or seed dispersal vs distance, all long-tailed. This means that there is a barrier to larger genomes but the barrier is permeable. This would suggest that large genomes are being recruited for some function but it could be very different function depending on the group.</p>
<p><em>Comprehensive Mapping of Long-Range Interactions Reveals Folding Principles of the Human Genome, </em>Erez Lieberman-Aiden, Nynke L. van Berkum, Louise Williams, Maxim Imakaev, Tobias Ragoczy, Agnes Telling, Ido Amit, Bryan R. Lajoie, Peter J. Sabo, Michael O. Dorschner, Richard Sandstrom, Bradley Bernstein, M. A. Bender, Mark Groudine, Andreas Gnirke, John Stamatoyannopoulos, Leonid A. Mirny, Eric S. Lander, Job Dekker, Science Oct 2009.<br />
<em>Complete nucleotide sequence of the chlorarachniophyte nucleomorph: Nature’s smallest nucleu</em>s, Paul R. Gilson, Vanessa Su, Claudio H. Slamovits, Michael E. Reith, Patrick J. Keeling, Geoffrey I. McFadden, PNAS June 20, 2006.<br />
<em>DNA Transposons and the Evolution of Eukaryotic Genomes</em>, Cédric Feschotte and Ellen J. Pritham, Annu Rev Genet. 2007.<br />
<em>Distribution of Centromere-Like parS Sites in Bacteria: Insights from Comparative Genomics, </em>Jonathan Livny, Yoshiharu Yamaichi, and  Matthew K. Waldor, J Bacteriol. 2007 December</p>
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		<title>By: Keith Grimaldi</title>
		<link>http://www.genomicron.evolverzone.com/2009/12/does-junk-dna-protect-against-mutation/comment-page-1/#comment-1357</link>
		<dc:creator>Keith Grimaldi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Dec 2009 07:34:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.genomicron.evolverzone.com/?p=713#comment-1357</guid>
		<description>I have tried to answer your questions - nothing conclusive of course but maybe they still leave room for a protective property of DNA (i try to use neutral words - protective property rather than role or function. The latter suggest that non-coding DNA evolved to fulfil a particular role or function, i don&#039;t believe that is necessary to propose).

&lt;strong&gt;1. Species exposed to intense UV (e.g., on land or in freshwater in the Arctic, pelagic plankton, etc.) do not appear to have large genomes. On the other hand, some very large genomes are found in deep-sea invertebrates.&lt;/strong&gt;
I don’t think that either no-function or protective hypotheses need to explain very large genomes if it is accepted that they are there for no particular “reason” but that their existence may reduce the required fidelity of repair mechanisms (in the case of protective). What is the life cycle of plankton – a few days? Short enough perhaps to not be compromised by UV?
&lt;strong&gt;2. Among vertebrates, species with high metabolic rates, and presumably more free oxygen radicals, have smaller genomes than species with lower metabolic rates.&lt;/strong&gt;
Even the smaller genomes are considerably non-coding (hummingbiord?) and would be sufficient to provide protection to allow survival long enough for reproduction in these short life-span animals. I’m trying not to dismiss out of hand…is there a proposed reason for smaller genomes linked to higher metabolic rates that would make the “cost” of genome size reduction worth it?
&lt;strong&gt;3. There can be substantial differences in genome size among similar organisms, for example as in onion and its relatives or among salamanders.&lt;/strong&gt;
Again – I don’t think that either no-function or protective needs to explain vastly differing genome sizes. Neither propose that genome size evolved to fit specific needs, rather, the protective hypothesis would propose that the repair mechanisms evolved to the necessary fidelity required to cope with whatever circumstances existed. Both no-function and protective accept that the non-coding DNA happened by chance and was allowed to build up because there is not strong reason to get rid of it, since it is not such an energy consuming resource to replicate it etc (except maybe for high metabolic rates where some needs to be discarded?)
&lt;strong&gt;4. Despite claims to the contrary based on small and questionable analyses, there are no clear relationships between genome size and lifespan&lt;/strong&gt;.
Ditto – except that obviously, for a protective role, there would need to be sufficient non-coding DNA to support a life-span long enough to reproduce. This does not predict though that genome size is tightly linked to lifespan – for protection, a genome with a majority of non-coding DNA would be necessary but not sufficient for an adequate life-span.
&lt;strong&gt;5. Transposable elements, which are the primary contributor to genome size, can cause a range of mutations through insertion into genes or by causing large deletions by illegitimate recombination, the latter of which is especially likely with the long terminal repeat (LTR) elements that are common in plants.&lt;/strong&gt;
Mismatch detection and repair systems are very well developed and highly (not 100%) efficient - the greatest cause of DNA damage, by orders of magnitude, is endogenous, so problems related to transposable elements, copying long repeats, etc would presumably be coped with. Also not all mutation is bad even at the gene level, we are full of SNPs, insertions, deletions, CNVs, etc. Most damage is handled, if not the next protection is apoptosis if insertions corrupt crucial genes. Sometimes insertion into some crucial genes though may not be detected as aberrant and could lead to loss of cell growth control, or reduce damage repair fidelity, or anything that may lead eventually to transformed cells. But this could also be an argument for non-coding DNA being useful for protection – the presence of which makes it much less likely that insertions will happen in genes.
&lt;strong&gt;6. DNA content obviously can be amplified in somatic cells by endoreduplication, but this tends to be in cells involved in ion exchange, protein production, etc., and not ones exposed most to mutagens (such as the skin exposed to UV).&lt;/strong&gt;
Not sure what the answer to this is, or if it needs one, given the “passive” role proposed for non-coding genome size regarding protection. For UV other protection mechanisms evolved (e.g. melanin)



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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have tried to answer your questions &#8211; nothing conclusive of course but maybe they still leave room for a protective property of DNA (i try to use neutral words &#8211; protective property rather than role or function. The latter suggest that non-coding DNA evolved to fulfil a particular role or function, i don&#8217;t believe that is necessary to propose).</p>
<p><strong>1. Species exposed to intense UV (e.g., on land or in freshwater in the Arctic, pelagic plankton, etc.) do not appear to have large genomes. On the other hand, some very large genomes are found in deep-sea invertebrates.</strong><br />
I don’t think that either no-function or protective hypotheses need to explain very large genomes if it is accepted that they are there for no particular “reason” but that their existence may reduce the required fidelity of repair mechanisms (in the case of protective). What is the life cycle of plankton – a few days? Short enough perhaps to not be compromised by UV?<br />
<strong>2. Among vertebrates, species with high metabolic rates, and presumably more free oxygen radicals, have smaller genomes than species with lower metabolic rates.</strong><br />
Even the smaller genomes are considerably non-coding (hummingbiord?) and would be sufficient to provide protection to allow survival long enough for reproduction in these short life-span animals. I’m trying not to dismiss out of hand…is there a proposed reason for smaller genomes linked to higher metabolic rates that would make the “cost” of genome size reduction worth it?<br />
<strong>3. There can be substantial differences in genome size among similar organisms, for example as in onion and its relatives or among salamanders.</strong><br />
Again – I don’t think that either no-function or protective needs to explain vastly differing genome sizes. Neither propose that genome size evolved to fit specific needs, rather, the protective hypothesis would propose that the repair mechanisms evolved to the necessary fidelity required to cope with whatever circumstances existed. Both no-function and protective accept that the non-coding DNA happened by chance and was allowed to build up because there is not strong reason to get rid of it, since it is not such an energy consuming resource to replicate it etc (except maybe for high metabolic rates where some needs to be discarded?)<br />
<strong>4. Despite claims to the contrary based on small and questionable analyses, there are no clear relationships between genome size and lifespan</strong>.<br />
Ditto – except that obviously, for a protective role, there would need to be sufficient non-coding DNA to support a life-span long enough to reproduce. This does not predict though that genome size is tightly linked to lifespan – for protection, a genome with a majority of non-coding DNA would be necessary but not sufficient for an adequate life-span.<br />
<strong>5. Transposable elements, which are the primary contributor to genome size, can cause a range of mutations through insertion into genes or by causing large deletions by illegitimate recombination, the latter of which is especially likely with the long terminal repeat (LTR) elements that are common in plants.</strong><br />
Mismatch detection and repair systems are very well developed and highly (not 100%) efficient &#8211; the greatest cause of DNA damage, by orders of magnitude, is endogenous, so problems related to transposable elements, copying long repeats, etc would presumably be coped with. Also not all mutation is bad even at the gene level, we are full of SNPs, insertions, deletions, CNVs, etc. Most damage is handled, if not the next protection is apoptosis if insertions corrupt crucial genes. Sometimes insertion into some crucial genes though may not be detected as aberrant and could lead to loss of cell growth control, or reduce damage repair fidelity, or anything that may lead eventually to transformed cells. But this could also be an argument for non-coding DNA being useful for protection – the presence of which makes it much less likely that insertions will happen in genes.<br />
<strong>6. DNA content obviously can be amplified in somatic cells by endoreduplication, but this tends to be in cells involved in ion exchange, protein production, etc., and not ones exposed most to mutagens (such as the skin exposed to UV).</strong><br />
Not sure what the answer to this is, or if it needs one, given the “passive” role proposed for non-coding genome size regarding protection. For UV other protection mechanisms evolved (e.g. melanin)</p>
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		<title>By: T. Ryan Gregory</title>
		<link>http://www.genomicron.evolverzone.com/2009/12/does-junk-dna-protect-against-mutation/comment-page-1/#comment-1355</link>
		<dc:creator>T. Ryan Gregory</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Dec 2009 15:47:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.genomicron.evolverzone.com/?p=713#comment-1355</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I think it is an interesting question, but my one caution would be that it&#039;s not all or nothing.  There may be a certain minimum amount of non-coding DNA that a complex genome really does need (this is a given, at least in terms of telomeres, centromeres, etc.), but the majority of it, and the differences in amount among species, may not be explained that way.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think it is an interesting question, but my one caution would be that it&#8217;s not all or nothing.  There may be a certain minimum amount of non-coding DNA that a complex genome really does need (this is a given, at least in terms of telomeres, centromeres, etc.), but the majority of it, and the differences in amount among species, may not be explained that way.</p>
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		<title>By: T. Ryan Gregory</title>
		<link>http://www.genomicron.evolverzone.com/2009/12/does-junk-dna-protect-against-mutation/comment-page-1/#comment-1354</link>
		<dc:creator>T. Ryan Gregory</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Dec 2009 15:45:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.genomicron.evolverzone.com/?p=713#comment-1354</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt; &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote cite=&quot;comment-1352&quot;&gt;&lt;strong&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-1352&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;David&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/strong&gt;: One way of testing the relationship between genome size and mutation rate (without worrying about selection) would be to look at polyploid plants, by generating tetraploids. This would double the size of the genome, and allow for comparision of the mutation rate in parents and F1&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I&#039;d be surprised if that had never been attempted, but I&#039;ll let you search the botanical literature!&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt; &lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p> </p>
<blockquote cite="comment-1352"><p><strong><a href="#comment-1352" rel="nofollow">David</a></strong>: One way of testing the relationship between genome size and mutation rate (without worrying about selection) would be to look at polyploid plants, by generating tetraploids. This would double the size of the genome, and allow for comparision of the mutation rate in parents and F1</p></blockquote>
<p>I&#8217;d be surprised if that had never been attempted, but I&#8217;ll let you search the botanical literature!</p>
<p> </p>
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		<title>By: Keith Grimaldi</title>
		<link>http://www.genomicron.evolverzone.com/2009/12/does-junk-dna-protect-against-mutation/comment-page-1/#comment-1353</link>
		<dc:creator>Keith Grimaldi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Dec 2009 15:41:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.genomicron.evolverzone.com/?p=713#comment-1353</guid>
		<description>Yes I agree that I would be wrong to propose the 2nd less simplest as needing refutation without having refuted the simplest. I instinctively preferred the protective theory, but it was in preference to the more complex theories and the statements that it has to have complex function or nature would have discarded it (I don’t believe that nature is a perfectionist and that just because it - &quot;junk&quot; DNA- is there is has to have a purpose - it may have none). I accept that I am guilty of assuming that the protective theory was the simplest because I spontaneously concluded that there is too much DNA damage for a purely gene containing genome to sustain – the null is the simplest, even so, I am still inclined to the protective but also accept that the null needs to be dealt with, and I certainly can’t refute it without experimentation.
Positive evidence? I don’t know, I prefer the protective theory because of the fact of the background mutation rates of cells due to endogenous damage for which sophisticated  processes have evolved to defend against. These processes are not 100% reliable and maybe they don&#039;t need to be because of the presence of non-coding DNA, i.e. there is not a &quot;purpose&quot; or a &quot;function&quot; for non-coding DNA, but it just happens to be there which meant that repair mechanisms did not have to evolve to perfection without compromising life-span. This is speculating of course, but what is a fact is the level of endogenous damage and the rates of mutation caused by this damage (important to note that we are discussing here endogenous damage, not external artificially applied ionising radiation - for UV I need to come back to that). If these levels were concentrated to coding regions in the nuclear genome they would be too high for generational life spans (in humans at least). It doesn&#039;t require development of specific chromosome structures, or molecular sensors, just the presence of a majority of non-coding DNA.
This does not mean that non-coding DNA needed to &quot;evolve&quot; to fulfil this function, but, as above, it is there so it meant that repair systems did not need to evolve to even higher levels of fidelity. So we are getting to a dependence on definitions. It has no &quot;purpose&quot; (what has?), it did not &quot;evolve for a reason&quot;, it just happens to be there... with maybe no function. The single question that differentiates the null hypothesis from the next level up (protective) is &quot;does it need to be there, can we do without it&quot;? I glibly and facetiously said in my first post that if it wasn&#039;t there it would need to be invented – I meant it in this sense and that is the ultimate test or prediction: without it a cell would not survive. I would like to test it, unfortunately I don’t have the resources and I cannot think of a clever other way to test it, I don’t know if it is technologically possible to do so currently. On the other hand I don’t know either if it is worth dedicating too many resources to it because I’m not sure what benefit it would bring to know the answer apart from curiosity and the fact that it would be nice to resolve it, it’s giving me a bit of a headache…
 
 
 
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes I agree that I would be wrong to propose the 2nd less simplest as needing refutation without having refuted the simplest. I instinctively preferred the protective theory, but it was in preference to the more complex theories and the statements that it has to have complex function or nature would have discarded it (I don’t believe that nature is a perfectionist and that just because it &#8211; &#8220;junk&#8221; DNA- is there is has to have a purpose &#8211; it may have none). I accept that I am guilty of assuming that the protective theory was the simplest because I spontaneously concluded that there is too much DNA damage for a purely gene containing genome to sustain – the null is the simplest, even so, I am still inclined to the protective but also accept that the null needs to be dealt with, and I certainly can’t refute it without experimentation.<br />
Positive evidence? I don’t know, I prefer the protective theory because of the fact of the background mutation rates of cells due to endogenous damage for which sophisticated  processes have evolved to defend against. These processes are not 100% reliable and maybe they don&#8217;t need to be because of the presence of non-coding DNA, i.e. there is not a &#8220;purpose&#8221; or a &#8220;function&#8221; for non-coding DNA, but it just happens to be there which meant that repair mechanisms did not have to evolve to perfection without compromising life-span. This is speculating of course, but what is a fact is the level of endogenous damage and the rates of mutation caused by this damage (important to note that we are discussing here endogenous damage, not external artificially applied ionising radiation &#8211; for UV I need to come back to that). If these levels were concentrated to coding regions in the nuclear genome they would be too high for generational life spans (in humans at least). It doesn&#8217;t require development of specific chromosome structures, or molecular sensors, just the presence of a majority of non-coding DNA.<br />
This does not mean that non-coding DNA needed to &#8220;evolve&#8221; to fulfil this function, but, as above, it is there so it meant that repair systems did not need to evolve to even higher levels of fidelity. So we are getting to a dependence on definitions. It has no &#8220;purpose&#8221; (what has?), it did not &#8220;evolve for a reason&#8221;, it just happens to be there&#8230; with maybe no function. The single question that differentiates the null hypothesis from the next level up (protective) is &#8220;does it need to be there, can we do without it&#8221;? I glibly and facetiously said in my first post that if it wasn&#8217;t there it would need to be invented – I meant it in this sense and that is the ultimate test or prediction: without it a cell would not survive. I would like to test it, unfortunately I don’t have the resources and I cannot think of a clever other way to test it, I don’t know if it is technologically possible to do so currently. On the other hand I don’t know either if it is worth dedicating too many resources to it because I’m not sure what benefit it would bring to know the answer apart from curiosity and the fact that it would be nice to resolve it, it’s giving me a bit of a headache…</p>
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		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://www.genomicron.evolverzone.com/2009/12/does-junk-dna-protect-against-mutation/comment-page-1/#comment-1352</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Dec 2009 14:13:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.genomicron.evolverzone.com/?p=713#comment-1352</guid>
		<description>An interesting posting, and a useful reminder that just because something seems intuitive, does not make it true.
The difficulty as I see it is how do you test the hypothesis. For most organisms, irrespective of genome size, it is critical to minimise (manage?)  the rate of mutation, either by perhaps reducing target size (under debate), or improving DNA repair mechanisms. 
It is possible (testable) that organisms with smaller genomes have more efficient DNA repair. 

I am interested in retrotransposition, and exaptation of retrotransposed elements. In most genomes the distribution is non-random, and indeed different elements may display different patterns of distibution.
Whilst not proving or disproving the hypothesis either way, anecdotally I have come across examples of repeats within repeats within repeats (like a russian doll), suggesting that the initial repeat was a target for a subsequent integration and so on.

One way of testing the relationship between genome size and mutation rate (without worrying about selection) would be to look at polyploid plants, by generating tetraploids. This would double the size of the genome, and allow for comparision of the mutation rate in parents and F1 </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>An interesting posting, and a useful reminder that just because something seems intuitive, does not make it true.<br />
The difficulty as I see it is how do you test the hypothesis. For most organisms, irrespective of genome size, it is critical to minimise (manage?)  the rate of mutation, either by perhaps reducing target size (under debate), or improving DNA repair mechanisms.<br />
It is possible (testable) that organisms with smaller genomes have more efficient DNA repair. </p>
<p>I am interested in retrotransposition, and exaptation of retrotransposed elements. In most genomes the distribution is non-random, and indeed different elements may display different patterns of distibution.<br />
Whilst not proving or disproving the hypothesis either way, anecdotally I have come across examples of repeats within repeats within repeats (like a russian doll), suggesting that the initial repeat was a target for a subsequent integration and so on.</p>
<p>One way of testing the relationship between genome size and mutation rate (without worrying about selection) would be to look at polyploid plants, by generating tetraploids. This would double the size of the genome, and allow for comparision of the mutation rate in parents and F1 </p>
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		<title>By: T. Ryan Gregory</title>
		<link>http://www.genomicron.evolverzone.com/2009/12/does-junk-dna-protect-against-mutation/comment-page-1/#comment-1350</link>
		<dc:creator>T. Ryan Gregory</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Dec 2009 13:08:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.genomicron.evolverzone.com/?p=713#comment-1350</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt; &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote cite=&quot;comment-1348&quot;&gt;&lt;strong&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-1348&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Keith Grimaldi&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/strong&gt;: The null hypothesis is the simplest – i.e. no real function, but the protective hypothesis (NOT MINE, just one i think could be possible) is the next simplest that needs to be explained away.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I&#039;m fine with continuing to consider this as a viable hypothesis -- my goal here is not to refute it but to move it forward and to point out what it will need in order to be accepted.  However, I have an issue with your logic here.  The simplest explanation is non-function.  The second-simplest is bodyguard function.  The latter is simple and therefore needs to be refuted with evidence.  But the first, which is even simpler, apparently does not.  Evidence for the bodyguard hypothesis would be evidence against the non-functional hypothesis, so you&#039;re stuck with needing positive evidence for your idea before we worry about refuting it.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt; &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt; &lt;/p&gt;</description>
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<blockquote cite="comment-1348"><p><strong><a href="#comment-1348" rel="nofollow">Keith Grimaldi</a></strong>: The null hypothesis is the simplest – i.e. no real function, but the protective hypothesis (NOT MINE, just one i think could be possible) is the next simplest that needs to be explained away.</p></blockquote>
<p>I&#8217;m fine with continuing to consider this as a viable hypothesis &#8212; my goal here is not to refute it but to move it forward and to point out what it will need in order to be accepted.  However, I have an issue with your logic here.  The simplest explanation is non-function.  The second-simplest is bodyguard function.  The latter is simple and therefore needs to be refuted with evidence.  But the first, which is even simpler, apparently does not.  Evidence for the bodyguard hypothesis would be evidence against the non-functional hypothesis, so you&#8217;re stuck with needing positive evidence for your idea before we worry about refuting it.</p>
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		<title>By: Keith Grimaldi</title>
		<link>http://www.genomicron.evolverzone.com/2009/12/does-junk-dna-protect-against-mutation/comment-page-1/#comment-1348</link>
		<dc:creator>Keith Grimaldi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Dec 2009 11:32:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.genomicron.evolverzone.com/?p=713#comment-1348</guid>
		<description>I have just noticed this so I suppose comments from the previous post (The junk DNA myth (or lack thereof), should move here.
TRG said: &quot;As I said, I am happy to consider it as a legitimate hypothesis — but only if it moves well beyond the usual pattern in which it is proposed as though it were new, accepted without supporting evidence, and defended through dismissal of obvious counter-evidence. The null hypothesis, that much of the non-coding DNA in eukaryotic genomes does not have an organismal function, also has to be acknowledged as at least equally plausible in light of our understanding of genome biology.&quot;
It&#039;s not my intention to propode it as if it were new, never thought that because obviously it isn&#039;t. I just mentioned it (sorry for mentioning it without listing all the evidence for and against) because i thought the idea of these blogs were for informal discussion, debate etc. I have often wondered why the &quot;bodyguard&quot; theory has never really been studied (maybe it is too difficult technically to test) in detail and why it is dismissed by many but without proper consideration. I am not saying that you are doing so but others, many others have. I have not had time to study what you write above, there is quite a lot of technical detail. The null hypothesis is the simplest - i.e. no real function, but the protective hypothesis (NOT MINE, just one i think could be possible) is the next simplest that needs to be explained away. I can attempt to answer your questions to your satisfaction (maybe more comments than detailed answers, so maybe not to youre satisfaction and so maybe I should keep quiet?) - in the end it&#039;s not going to go away until it is properly tested and excluded, or else real evidence for some other function emerges</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have just noticed this so I suppose comments from the previous post (The junk DNA myth (or lack thereof), should move here.<br />
TRG said: &#8220;As I said, I am happy to consider it as a legitimate hypothesis — but only if it moves well beyond the usual pattern in which it is proposed as though it were new, accepted without supporting evidence, and defended through dismissal of obvious counter-evidence. The null hypothesis, that much of the non-coding DNA in eukaryotic genomes does not have an organismal function, also has to be acknowledged as at least equally plausible in light of our understanding of genome biology.&#8221;<br />
It&#8217;s not my intention to propode it as if it were new, never thought that because obviously it isn&#8217;t. I just mentioned it (sorry for mentioning it without listing all the evidence for and against) because i thought the idea of these blogs were for informal discussion, debate etc. I have often wondered why the &#8220;bodyguard&#8221; theory has never really been studied (maybe it is too difficult technically to test) in detail and why it is dismissed by many but without proper consideration. I am not saying that you are doing so but others, many others have. I have not had time to study what you write above, there is quite a lot of technical detail. The null hypothesis is the simplest &#8211; i.e. no real function, but the protective hypothesis (NOT MINE, just one i think could be possible) is the next simplest that needs to be explained away. I can attempt to answer your questions to your satisfaction (maybe more comments than detailed answers, so maybe not to youre satisfaction and so maybe I should keep quiet?) &#8211; in the end it&#8217;s not going to go away until it is properly tested and excluded, or else real evidence for some other function emerges</p>
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		<title>By: The other jim</title>
		<link>http://www.genomicron.evolverzone.com/2009/12/does-junk-dna-protect-against-mutation/comment-page-1/#comment-1346</link>
		<dc:creator>The other jim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Dec 2009 09:35:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.genomicron.evolverzone.com/?p=713#comment-1346</guid>
		<description>Thank-you.  That was a very nice summary.
My experience in discussion is that people simply use the probability argument (if 90% of the DNA is non coding, 90% of the mutations will be in non-coding). Not very satisfying, but a quite widespread argument.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank-you.  That was a very nice summary.<br />
My experience in discussion is that people simply use the probability argument (if 90% of the DNA is non coding, 90% of the mutations will be in non-coding). Not very satisfying, but a quite widespread argument.</p>
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